The Soave INIMA Round Table

• The participants

  INIMA fielded a strong team of international partners for the event in Soave (Italy) on Ferbruary 24th 2024

  
  Moderator
  -Jonathan Selby, chairman of INIMA (Europe) and board member of Leading Network (Italy)

  The Team
  -Marei Strack, CEO of DDIM (Germany)
  -Tony Evans, chairman of IIM (UK)
  -Jean-Philippe Ménétret, president of AE CMT (France)
  -Francisco Paez, board member of AIME (Spain)
  - Bruno P. Baumberger, president of DSIM (Switzerland)
  -Stanislaw Wojnicki, board member of SIM (Poland)
  -Fabio Montefiori president of Leading Network (Italy)
  -Michael Stowasser, board member of DOIM (Austria)
  -Maarten van Lelyveld, board member of AIM (Portugal)
  -Pavel Pačes, board member of CAIM (Czech Republiic)

• What are the challenges faced by a female interim manager?

  Marei​

  Although we have been discussing how to increase the number of women on boards in Germany for more than 15 years, there is still a gap. Throughout my career in the corporate world, I have always been the only woman in a senior management role, for example as a senior vice president. But you need at least 30% women in a team to really benefit from diversity. ​

  We have about 15% women in interim management in Germany, with some differences depending on the function or position.​

  In interim management, however, both men and women still attribute more competence to male managers than to women. Even most men believe that a woman has to do much more to get the same recognition as a man. For female interim managers, this means that they have to actively "sell" themselves even more than their male colleagues, which many women find difficult.​

  In addition to the structural level, there are also family and personal reasons why interim management is often not attractive for women. I'm talking about the often still traditional roles in bringing up children or caring for parents. Perhaps it also plays a role that women are more aware of the price of the required mobility and high work commitment for their own family and social life.

• France and Poland have the highest percentage of women interim managers in Europe. What are the underlying reasons? ​ ​

  Moderator​
  In France there are various reasons, specific laws that increase gender inclusion, also there is a demand for expertise with a large female %, such as finance and human resources. ​
  
  Jean-Philippe​
  There are several explanations for this:​
  1 In 2021, the French Rixian law requires a quota of 30% of women in 2027 in the management bodies of companies with more than 1,000 employees (representing 1/3 of the missions).​
  2 The "Gender Equality Index" label is now a sign of recognition for companies that integrate professional equality into their CSR actions.​
  3 The diversity of functions in interim management in France can also be another explanation. Indeed, missions in finance and human resources represent respectively 27% and 15% of the total missions, (i.e. 42%) and are occupied by women in 60% and 64% of missions respectively.​
  
  Moderator​
  In Poland there is an additional social factor, the last century saw a larger female workforce in respect to other counties. ​
  
  Stan​
  During the first decades following 1945 there was a government-led policy of encouraging women to pursue education and undertake hitherto masculine roles; this led to increasing the proportion of women in different strata of the workforce. Disparities in salaries, although existing until today, tend also to be less significant than in many other countries. Moreover, the percentage of women tends to vary depending on the profession – there is a notably higher female representation i.a. in financial and HR roles, which represent 16% of the interim workforce.​​

• What is the UK demand for international interim managers after Brexit?​ ​

  Moderator​
  The effect of Brexit has been masked by the efects of COVID and to a lesser extent by geopolitics.​ Brexit certainly has rescricted mobility of managers "in and out" of the UK, but it is impossible to measure the impact. Notably, there are now economic indications of recesssion​
  ​
  Tony​
  The impact of Brexit on UK GDP was estimated to be c.4-5%, equivalent to a typical noticeable​ recession in the UK economy. Any impact was swamped by Covid which occurred around the​ same time, that produced a c.21% GDP reduction. Quickly following on from this was the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the consequent increase in international energy prices, in turn leading to "the cost of living crisis" and attendant high inflation, over 10%. ​​
  
  Anecdotally, international interim assignments for UK-based interim practitioners have become of a shorter duration, impacted by end clients wishing to avoid their interim over staying as against the 90 days resident in country in any 180 rule.​

  In summary, bureaucracy has adjusted so that the retrictions within the EU are similar to the rest of the world for UK-based interims.

• What impact has the war in Ukraine made on the interim market in Poland? ​

  Moderator​
  After the Ukraine war the number of workers from other countries has increased and the interim manager must now be skilled at managing a multi-cultural environment​
  
  Stan​
  While the impact of COVID on the Polish economy had been significant, the main influence seen after february 2022 – date of the Russian agression in Ukraine – was that of inflation, which was an international phenomenon. However, this was compensated on the one hand by strong governement measures injecting cash into various sectors, and on the other – by massive migration from Ukraine. The latter was of a specific nature, however, as it mainly consisted of women. While Poland had already a large numer of Ukrainian workers before the war, many of them decided to go back home to fight. Therefore, one of the main challenges interim managers have since 2023 has been manpower shortages, as Poland is struggling with demographics and the majority of Ukrainian refugees – who have been granted a special status and are allowed to work legally – do not have specialized skills required in manufacturing or shared service centers. Challenges related to the insertion of Ukrainians into the so far very homogenous Polish work environment are therefore now increased by the growing influx of migrant workers from Asia – mainly the Indian subcontinent, but also the Philippines, Vietnam and Central Asia. Poland does not have a tradition of multicultural workforce management and the ability to introduce this into a company culture is becoming a highly appreciated skill which interim managers can bring about.​

• Spain and Italy have a high proportion of small-sized enterprises. How does this impact interim management ? ​

  Moderator​
  Practically the smaller business usually have limited budgets, so flexible contracts such as fractional are common. Frequently, smaller companies get attached to a specific manager and the working relationships are often longer than in other countries. Interim managers in smaller companies often have the founding entrepreneur of the family as the first line of contact, this requires that the interim manager has the soft skills to effectively collaboration with people who may have a different way of thinking​
  
  Francisco​
  Most companies in Spain are small and family-owned and that implies two things: a lower capacity to invest in projects and a more traditional culture. This means that Interim Managers must earn the trust of the owners and demonstrate the additional value we can provide. In Spain it is usually thought that Interim Managers are expensive due to a lack of knowledge of the advantages we have in terms of expertise, knowledge, independence and effectiveness. We have to continue working to reverse this situation.​
  
  Fabio​
  Even in Italy we have a large number of SMEs, for this reason the cultural gap between entrepreneurs and managers represents one of the greatest difficulties in operating. Therefore the development of soft skills to manage relationships with owners is one of the factors that allow IM to operate successfully. As regards the economic spending capacity of companies and the ability of the corporate organization to follow the pace of change, in Italy we often work with part-time projects. It is possible to operate by focusing on objectives as well as dictating change management times that do not undermine the ability of the people in the company to accept change.​

• What is the added value of interim manager certification?​

  Moderator​
  The first to benefit from the certification seems to be the manager, who may be starting out as an interim after a successful career in permanent roles. A major take away was how Poland and France have managed to create and sustain their certification programs,. The answer is lobbying, at local and government levels.

  Jean-Philippe​
  The interim management certification that is issued in France benefits from two important recognitions: that of the French Federation of Interim Management called France Transition and that of the state via France Competences (Its mission is to finance, regulate and improve the vocational training and apprenticeship sector).​ The 14-day comprehensive training course provides the interim manager with the tools, methods and interpersonal skills necessary for the practice of this profession.​ At the end of his training at the Institute called IFMT, the certified interim manager can join the AE-CMT alumni association gathering more than 250 managers, allowing him to be part of the largest network of interim managers in France and in Europe through our INIMA network.​
  
  At the end of the certification, the interim manager commits to a code of ethics.

  ​
  Stan​
  Our certification program is based on the Interim Management Methodology – a comprehensive manual designed for candidates for the profession, put together in 2010. As our key challenge was to raise awareness of the concept among employers, we thought it would be useful to create a standard which would be officially recognized in the market and which would differentiate experienced interim managers from people without strong references. We used the Polish Qualifications Framework (conform to the EQF), supervised by the Ministry of Infrastructure, and through a long process (it took 2 years to reach the final shape) we designed and implemented a professional certification framework including a set of requirements, training courses, examination and regulations for certifying organization, which has now become law. The certificate is an objective reference , is legally protected and testifies that those holding it have the required knowledge, skills , experience and ethical level so that they can be trusted to enter a company for a limited period of time without creating undue risks for the owners.

• What are the characteristics of interim management in Portugal, and how is it different from Spain? ​​

  ​Moderator​​
  Portugal differs from other mediterranean countries, interims have a higher proportion of contracts with larger international companies​​
  
  Maarten​​
  Although the practice has existed for quite some years, Interim management in Portugal is still in an initial phase. ​AIM was set up in 2021 to mainly support its members and create awareness of how Interim Management can add value in various sectors in Portugal.​
  AIM has actively organised various events (webinars, conferences, training, publications, etc.) to promote Interim management in Portugal. ​AIM members currently work at medium and larger national and international companies.​Our biggest challenge is making business managers and decision-makers in Portugal aware of the Interim Management benefits.​ Also, engaging with governmental entities and partnerships with universities, chambers of commerce, and industrial associations is essential to getting Interim Management recognition in Portugal. ​
  
  Given a significant part of our members have international assignments, we initiated the “International IM Assignments Guide”, which is being done in collaboration with INIMA.

• What are the characteristics of interim management in the Czech Republic? ​

  Pavel​

  The Czech Association of Interim Management has been established 14 years ago. The Czech Association of Interim Management is a professional platform for meeting colleagues, potential clients, interim management agents and other interesting people from the business community. CAIM helps its members increase their visibility on the market and serves as the first source of information for potential clients.​

  Our mission is to bring together interim managers, agents and all people who might be interested in or use the benefits of interim management across the Czech Republic. To raise awareness of interim management and activities of our members in the Czech environment and act as a source of know-how of interim management and highlight its possibilities and benefits. Further to identify practical applications of interim management and create a standard for interim management and associated services.​

  CAIM is led by seven-member committee, which meets every month and solves operational tasks. There are bi-annual general assemblies for all members solving strategic developments.​

  Focus of projects for IMs in the Czech Republic mirrors structure of our economics. There are plenty of automotive supplier sites, where IM are active on projects. ​

  There are lot of production companies owned by Czech capital. We solved wide range of issues, e.g., change of strategy, change management, project management, optimalization of process and corporate succession.​ There are also projects for companies with going to bankruptcy, where our aim is to rescue them. These projects are mostly executed with larger groups of interim managers with various qualification (general management, operations, production, finance, HR)​ Newly we support IT start ups, we help them to create market strategies, to set up standard company processes, to ensure awareness of company economics.​ Finally, I would like to mention that the awareness of interim management is still not widely spread by potential clients as we aspire.​ For many projects there are firstly agreements with big international consulting companies and only then IMs are hired for the projects by that consulting companies. Our aim is to have more direct contracts with our potential clients.

• How are other states linked to the German interim market? ​

  ​ Moderator​

  Cross border collaboration is not always smooth even when language is not really a barrier, as between Germany, Austria and Switzerland: The subtle cultural differences and the different way of working can create friction,​ ​

  Bruno​

  It is mainly an issue of laws. It is much easier for German or Austrian IMs to come to Switzerland because Switzerland is in many ways more liberal than Germany or the EU in general. There is however a quite high cultural barrier which leads in many a case to difficult situations. Swiss German is not only a language but a way of life!​

  Marei​

  International assignments are always challenging. Of course, it is easier if the language is at least similar, as communication is the key to success as an interim manager.​

  However, there are cultural differences you have to consider if you want to work in Hamburg or Swabia (Stuttgart) like I do as a Rhinelander. But let's get serious. In the so-called D-A-CH area (Germany-Austria-Switzerland), there is a long-standing and close cooperation between associations and companies, both among managers and providers. This makes it easier to work together.

• The German IM market has grown substantially in recent years. What have been the main drivers? ​

  Moderator​

  The growing automotive and machinery sectors have played an import role in the IM market development, also mergers and acquisitions

  Marei​

  The German interim management market is growing steadily, with only a slight dip during the coronavirus pandemic. Since then, the market has grown significantly, both in terms of demand for interim management services and the number of professional interim managers and providers. This is mainly due to the fact that the traditionally strong sectors for interim management, automotive and engineering, are still doing very well. Companies in these export-oriented sectors have a high need for change in order to remain internationally competitive. However, the management resources in many companies have become very "lean" during several waves of restructuring in recent years. This makes it increasingly difficult to provide projects with their own management resources. The situation is exacerbated by demographic change and a shortage of skilled labour at all levels.​

  We see it as our task to raise the profile of interim management through targeted public relations work and to show even more companies the possible applications and benefits.​

• Interim managers complain about too much work or too little work, what is the situation?​

  Moderator​

  Variations in workload are just part of the interim manager, so the message is accept it and move on. In 2023, the workload has started to reduce from the saturation in the previous year.​

  Bruno​

  We in Switzerland try to make our IMs understand, that this issue is part of being an IM. ​ No amount of complaining and bickering will change that. It is much better to accept the fact and take advantage of the good side and try to minimize downsides of our way life.​ This in the long run minimizes stress and improves quality of life of oneself and of our families.​

  Marei ​

  Since the end of the pandemic, we have had a very strong market. Most interim managers are working at full capacity. I have not heard any complaints about excessive workloads. After all, we are all entrepreneurs and we decide how much capacity we offer. Of course it can be a lot in a hot phase, but that's the job and we generally enjoy it. ​

  It's important to take a break between projects for holidays, training, health, family and so on. In my opinion, a permanent workload of 180 days or more per year is not desirable for an interim manager.

• Actually, is there of a particular IM expertise that is under or over utilized?​

  Moderator​
  For many roles it is increasingly more difficult to acquire experienced interim managers, such as digitalization experts.​However, interim CFOs, are reporting a high pressure on pricing.

  ​​
  Tony​
  Irrespective of functional expertise, there has been plenty of demand for interims across the range. Perhaps the least used is the MD/CEO level, due to reluctance to change the most senior member of the executive team.​ It is noted that over 90% of all interim assignments in the UK are involving some significant change and this has been the case for a number of years now. ​Downward pressure on fees has been experienced due to legislative changes. This is largely driven by end clients and/or intermediary businesses applying employers taxes to the interim's pay calculations to protect the end client from paying their full tax bill.​​
  Where the more normal day rate approach is still used, there is good evidence that the average day rate has risen again in 2023.​

  ​
  Jean-Philippe​
  For Digital/IT Manager, there is a big demand from Small and Medium companies but a lack of IM available.​For General Manager, the demand for turnaround assignments was quiet low since the Covid, thanks to the government financial helps. It may change this year with the recession coming.​For CSR Manager, the demand is still not arrived. The need is more on the consulting part. Nevertheless, we believe that there will be more and more impact assignments in the near future.